I found this on a forum about Jon's mortal wounding....

I think that Jon isn't dead, I think he is injured. I think the reason for this is to allow him to become one with Ghost in a way he hasn't before, not through the "true death" and being reborn. my evidence for this is the following:

1) when varymyr dies he becomes one with the weirwood tree after he's kicked out of thistle, his spirit becomes one with everything and even sees bran and company on the elk before finally finding one-eye and experiencing the true death. When he experiences it he likens the true death to a shock of cold, and yes, the last lines of jon's chapter show that "all he felt was cold" but it didnt seem as drastic. there was no becoming aware of everything around him, becoming a part of everything around him. The way it is described seems a lot more like Asha's blackout scene, and even a little like Brans falling scene.

2) Mellisandre mentions to jon that he needs to use his abilities and he thinks "I am not a wolf" or something like that. in addition to her seeing him in her fires "first a man then a wolf then a man again" this got me thinking more and more about other wargs that we know of and how they have managed while severely injured on the brink of death (insert Brans name here)

Soooo i guess my crazy theory is that Jon isn't dead, and maybe while he is close to death he will warg into snow and embrace that ability. through the entire dance we barely ever saw him have a wolf dream, we barely saw him be as close to ghost as he was when he was with the wildlings. his plot line mirrored Robbs in some ways because he ignored ghost and walked into danger. But I think that Jon is going to have what Robb didn't which is a second chance to realize that Ghost is a lot more of a part of him and his abilities than he was willing to admit. what that means for the watch? well they cant very well have a comatose LC, so that ends that for the time being, as to the possibility of AA? I think he is, but am not sure how that will play out. I will say that I am a little concerned that Ghost may end up becoming some weird kind of Nissa nissa. which would suck...hardcore    

It has some interesting points.  I also am more worried about the fate of Ghost. 

  

So Frustrating

GRRM is sadistic.  Plain old sadistic.

Of course Jon is the biggest freak out since the Red Wedding (red that in article and its dead on).

However, there are plenty of stunning moments - some rewarding, some shocking some that just make you smack your forehead.

OK Jon is dead or as GRRM has said - "mortally wounded", but isn't it shocking that he was attacked by fellow black watchmen.  Wic and Bowen, were first two blows, third in the back and he never felt the fourth dagger.

I know why - but the "why then" does not make sense.  The conspirators attack Jon at the scene of Wun Wun vs St. Patrick.  Well, more like Wun Wun and the rag doll.

Wildlings have to be around, does it immediately start a fight?  Does Wun Wun throw Bowen against the ice Wall?  Does Tormund lead a revolt?  None of it makes sense.

Oh, did Jon just break his oath?  Trying to lead an army south?  I refuse to believe Jon is really dead.

Certainly allows him to leave the Brothers (till he dies, right?)  Well he died - now he can go be King of the North and marry Danyres.

Speaking of which....woot!  The Dragons are free!!!

Tyrion is a second son - perfect.

Kevan killed by a crossbow - perfect - Varys again, wanting chaos so the young heir can make his claim in the chaos?

So disappointed- the Bastard must die - but he will likely die of pox in an unsatisfactory way....

Theory:  Dragon Mother needs to get all of her children (all of them) out of slaver bay.  But she has no fleet...who has a fleet...hmmm... I think there is POV character with two chapters about to show up.

Speaking of Bastard - the letter is filled with lies.  Has to be - but what is he trying to accomplish by getting Jon pissed and coming back?  Just for Mance?  Mance for what Arya?  (Jen, of course).  Does not make sense.  I think Mance is telling stories to the bastard who used them to create the letter....

Oh GRRM was in Dallas today and we missed it - Gus is pissed.

Love Qetyen's last word.

Penny is annoying, now.

Tryion needs to move forward - he is accomplishing nothing.

Asha is planning a new King's moot with her little precedence, but can Reek stand up for that?

No Sam, sounds like the lord of flowers is healing, too little Jaime... and Breane lives!!  Wow...  Does the dog really live?  And Robert Strong?  Interesting....

Who is Lord Protector and how much hair will the Lord Protector have?

I know the Banker is hoping for Stannis to honor Robert's debts...but how far will Stannis allow himself to be indebted?  Does not make sense...

Arya has a new face.... a pretty one.  More Arya please...

No Sansa... would not care much of that, but "the Vale is quiet" according to the Griffon.  Like Grif, but of course if I like him he has to be dying....

I hate GRRM.

I HATE GRRM

Because we all know how much he must love to torture his readers.



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Ok I'm reading the Dance now.

I sent a message to a friend suggesting he read the series.

When trying to describe series & author - I have a new thought. GRRM likes the twist and screwing the readers expectations.

So surely he knows what folks are thinking about John 's parents.

He will want to ruin that expectation.

If he does what is normal for GRRM - we should expect something we all assumed to be true - not to be true.

How about that John is Ned's son & Ned is not as honorable as we think???

I know it seems crazy - but John is very very Stark- what if... What if not only the seed was strong but the ground was fertile, too for Starkness....

GRRH is just a bastard to the reader... I think something like this is what we are in store for...

Just like the sympathetic transformation of Jaime- the precedent for devolving sympathies for the likes of Ned's wife, roller coaster with Tyrion, oblique sympathy for the odd Danerys, evil or greater good with the conspiracy group,

Just mark my words GRRM
wants to screw us.



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GRRM Hates Women

Cersei

I think GRRM must have been really scarred by women or has some real difficulties with the fairer sex.  Male authors that right POV for women might find it challenging – but GRRM is a good writer obviously – the story is compelling, but it just seems too consistent that he paints women as evil and if not evil he tortures or abuse them. 

• Cersei Lannister – the queen bee herself of everything stereo typically evil and despicable in a women. 
• Lysa Tully – whacky from the get go.  Never a doubt – non likeable character. 
• Margaery Tyrell –seems to a positive, but terribly unlucky character.  However, GRRM can help to make her possibly adulterous or treasonous…

• 

  Daenerys

  Olenna Redwyne – an intelligent elderly woman, plays smart in a man’s world, so GRRM calls her “The Queen of Thorns”
• Targaryen Women in general are week, incestuous,  and certainly rarely mentioned as heroic.  Only possible exception was Queen Ann and her gift?
• Daenerys Targaryen – the true “heroine” of the book.  Finally someone for women to rally around.  Well, except she too – like Margaery, Catelyn, Ayra, Sansa or Brean – has a horrible journey that pretty much begins with her being ridden and treated like a horse. 
• Myrcella Baratheon – some sympathetic child of incest, leads a small conspiracy,  but lost an ear and received a hideous facial scar.
• Lynanna Stark – lost princess of Winterfell or “too Wild for her own good?”

• 

  Catelyn

  Arya Stark – beset, capable of evil herself, remourseful at times, becomes and assasin and ends up blind
• Sansa Stark – yuk, my least favorite character of all women in the series – rarely any redeeming qualities. 
• Catelyn Tully Stark – maybe started off as good and a sympatheric character but her Dante-esqe decent slowly winds through a journey ever deeper into hell – that she eventually is dead and still not likeable. 
• Sand Snakes – lol
• If you want to find a somewhat likebale female character – you have to cross into the cross gender bending Asha and Brienne of Tarth (who GRRM still has hung at the end of the last book)

Of course the argument could be made that almost all the male characters are treated in the same way.- evil or tortured.  Well, the Stark men in general with the possible exception of Rikkon (Who seems to have been thrown away as a character) are all sympathetic (yes tortured) characters.  You can find other appealing and/or sympathetic male characters.  What about Tyrion or Jaime?  Tyrion is no puritan, but nevertheless we root for him.  Jaime – OMG – he is on a path of redemption worthy of altar call or testimony at a Baptist church! 

GRRM hates women. 

Daniel's Hypothesis: Love not Lust

Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. He is Ned's nephew. Rhaegar and Lyanna fell in love, perhaps initially at the Tourney at Harrenhall when Rhaegar named her Queen of Love and Beauty.

Rather than "kidnapping" Lyanna, I believe the two eloped, perhaps to the Tower of Joy. I think they were married. They remained there until Rhaegar left to fight Robert at the Battle of the Trident (note that Rhaegar did not participate in any battles during the War of the Usurper until the Trident). After Rhaegar was killed, Ned Stark and six companions went to the Tower of Joy to rescue Lyanna. There they fought and killed three members of the Kingsguard (Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent). They found Lyanna "on a bed of blood" which I believe is a reference to childbirth. Jon was born around the same time Ned Stark reached the Tower of Joy, and only he and the other survivor of the battle with the Kingsguard, Howland Reed, know the truth. Lyanna's last words to Ned are "promise me."

Evidence:

Rhaegar is remembered as a noble, likable man by all the those who knew him. He is said to have been bookish as a child, before suddenly deciding to learn weaponry and combat. Kidnapping Lyanna does not appear to fit with his character.

Lyanna is remembered by Ned to be wild and headstrong. He tells Arya in AGOT Chapter 22 (Arya) that "because of her wildness (Lyanna) died young." It would seem that he is blaming Lyanna for her death, rather than Rhaegar as would make sense if he had kidnapped her.

The three members of the Kingsguard that die at the Tower of Joy are reputed to be among the most honorable and noble knights in Westeros, especially Ser Arthur Dayne. The fact that they fought to the death would seem to suggest that they were honor bound to protect a member of the Royal family. Dying to protect Rhaegar's kidnapped mistress is a much weaker story than dying to protect the King's newborn son and, perhaps, his wife.

Lyanna's death makes much more sense as a death in childbirth than anything else. If she died "in a bed of blood," from something other than childbirth, what was it? Disease is unlikely, suicide also unlikely, especially if she was actually kidnapped, and if it was murder (as appears to be the assumption of most people) then who killed her? The noble knights of the Kingsguard?

Lyanna's last words to Ned Stark are "promise me." These make perfect sense if he has asked Ned to raise baby Jon as his own bastard and never tell Robert that he is Rhaegar's son by Lyanna. That news would have crushed Robert and almost certainly meant the death of Jon who is both the child of Robert's lifelong love by his greatest enemy AND, assuming Rhaegar married Lyanna, the rightful heir to the Throne of the Seven Kingdoms.

This brings us to perhaps the most important reason that Jon Snow is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. It sets up an endgame for the series. Jon Snow (really Targaryen), rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms, weds Daenarys Targaryen, his aunt (weird, but these are Targaryens...) and gets to ride one of her dragons in the final battle against the Others/the forces of the ephemeral Conspiracy involving (speculatively) Archmaester Marwyn, Varys, Magister Illyrio, etc.

Welcome and the first question

This blog was really created for a place to document and discuss theories about the plot lines of the Song of Fire and Ice.  This series was introduced to us by my nephew Daniel, and then read by me and then Gus, my son.

Gus and I have had a great deal of fun exploring the plot lines and trying to figure out the future (or past) of these stories with a story.  Recently, Daniel joined our discussions and dropped a huge bomb shell for me and Gus. 

With that in mind and in hopes that Daniel will now document his thoughts – the first question:

Who is Jon Snow’s mother… or the more leading question, who is Jon’s father?

For my part (and before Daniel told us his theory – which I love, but still have a few issues with), my thinking that of course Jon Snow’s father was Ned. Of all the children of Eddard and Cat, Jon most looks like his father (well, and Arya – but that’s different). 

So, I thought Ned did father a son during the War of the Usurper and we had a yet unrevealed story line.  Ned fathering a bastard, is certainly out of character – but with the dawdling author Mr. Martin at the helm – you can count on him doing unexpected things to the poor Stark family. Amidst the family's executions, assassinations, blindings, cripplings, and evolutions into the undead – what is one little bastard? 

In the first book of the series, Ned Stark claims that he "dishonored" his marriage to Catelyn with a wet nurse named Wylla who was employed at Starfall, but nothing more is known about her; Catelyn has also speculated that his mother was Ashara Dayne, also of Starfall, but when she brought it up, Ned refused to answer. Howland Reed, who accompanied Ned to the Tower of Joy and from there to Starfall, is believed to be the only living character to know the truth.

So at odds for me is the character of Ned to resolve – is he lying or does he sire a bastard?   I stuck with the bastard side of the equation, and it still troubles me with Daniel’s theory in it means Ned lies.
I like the theory around Ashara Dayne – dances with Ned at the Tournery at Harenhall before Robert’s War; Ned kills her brother (the Morning Star) and then in Feast of Crows – why does GRRM go into such detail about the stories and plot lines around Dorne after practicaly ignoring the Dornes and barely giving them mention in the first three books.  Not to mention Darkstar – seems he is a major character all of a sudden in Feast.   

So with this line of Jon’s mother – Ned dances with Ashara at the tourney they develop a relationship, timing is good for this and later events.  After the Tower of Joy, Ned goes to Starfall – Ashara’s home, before going back to Winterfell.  Ashara has a child, surprise – Ned has killed her brother, other issues not known, Ned takes Jon and Ashara commits suicide (or reverse that order to make it work).  
Wylla is still a mystery - So to be honest, I am not really sure who is Jon’s mother.  But the events at StarFall must play into Jon’s lineage or at the very least where Ned made his plan, this boy became Jon “Snow.”